Q&A: John King gets a sequel at SUNY

In the years since, King worked in the nonprofit sector as executive director of the Education Trust, which works to close educational gaps that disadvantage students of color. In 2022, he entered Maryland’s Democratic gubernatorial primary, but came in sixth.

In November, the SUNY Board of Trustees announced King’s return to the state in a new role: SUNY chancellor, filling the post left vacant a year earlier by the hasty exit of James Malatras, a former top aide to ex-Gov. Andrew Cuomo. 

In December, he visited the Times Union’s editorial board to talk about his vision for the job — overseeing more than 60 campuses and working to facilitate the educational ambitions of roughly 400,000 students — and the challenges that face not only the system but high education in general.

This Q&A, excerpted from that hourlong discussion, has been edited for length and clarity.

TU: So why did you want this job?

King: Whether it was in my time as education secretary or my time running the Education Trust, the civil rights organization I’ve been running since the end of the Obama administration, I’ve been very focused on issues of access, affordability and equity. And I find no better place to work on those issues than at SUNY, which has a long tradition of affordable, quality, public higher education — for first-generation students, immigrant students, students who are trying to advance in their job through their experiences in community college. So I love that part. I love the role that SUNY can and has played in economic development in the state and economic mobility, and really changing folks’ life trajectory. And I love that commitment to research and scholarship, whether it’s the battery research that Binghamton did, or the COVID-19 saliva test that was developed at Upstate Medical, SUNY has a tradition of contributing research that helps solve the biggest problems for the country and the world. And that’s what universities should do, in my view. So I’m very excited about the range of opportunities, very excited about the level of commitment across constituencies.

TU: What do you think of the increased use of “adjunct” educators — which is not unique to SUNY. Do you think that they’re overused, underused or just right, and do you think the idea of paying people relatively low wages to do college-level teaching is the way to go?

King: That’s definitely a challenge nationally, across hiring institutions. I think ultimately the relationships between faculty members and students are hugely important. And the ability of faculty members to do good research is hugely important. And all of that is helped by having a strong permanent faculty. There are important roles for adjuncts to play, but I do worry nationally that there’s an over-reliance on adjuncts. It was very good to see the governor and Legislature put in an additional $53 million last year in the budget, and commit to do that on an ongoing basis to help with funding faculty positions across the system. I’ve talked to campus leaders over the last few days who are really appreciative of that investment and faculty members who are really appreciative of that investment and see it as a way to grow the permanent faculty. And certainly in the bets that we want to make on the four major research institutions, attracting top-notch faculty is going to be critical.

TU: What are your thoughts on the merger of the College of Nanoscale Science and Engineering and UAlbany?

King: I’m excited about what can be accomplished with CNSE coming to UAlbany and the potential to really double down on the role of nanotech in the region, and the investment at UAlbany in research. I think now the question that we’re going to work towards is making sure with the stakeholders that we have a good vision for the role that SUNY Poly plays with the Utica and Rome campuses, and how we can advance economic development there.

TU: What the governor said last fall was that the Utica campus would become a kind of vocational machine for pumping out the specialists and workers that are going to be necessary for projects like the Micron facility outside Syracuse, and that CNSE would be the lab and innovation center that it’s proven to be. Does that comport with your sense of things at this stage? 

King: I think what the Trustees laid out does envision that SUNY Poly will be tightly linked to economic development strategy for Utica and the broader region. Certainly Micron presents a real opportunity not just for SUNY Poly, but really across the SUNY system — you know, Onondaga Community College is going to have an important role to play in the workforce for Micron. But I think it reflects more broadly a commitment on the governor’s part and the trustees’ part to the idea that SUNY is an engine of economic development, and an engine of economic mobility. And look, if we’re honest there’s real variation between campuses and programs, and how much of an earnings premium students get when they when they finish. And so we’ve got to be thinking about internships and partnerships with employers and programs that allow people to come back and up-skill. And that’s certainly part of what draws me to the role and has me excited about what we can accomplish in this system.

TU: How do you see coordinating and building a vision in a system as far-flung as SUNY?

King: We’ve spent a lot of time on campuses — visiting with students and faculty and staff, and the regional business community so that they know SUNY is their partner and preparing the workforce they need and want, to co-create programs with them. And certainly, making sure that we spend time talking with legislators about SUNY, what is happening not only in their region but across the system and how we’re trying to advance access, affordability and equity. 

TU: Do you have certain metrics that you’re placing on yourself, or that the Board of Trustees might be placing on you — a five-year report card that you’ll be trying to live up to?

King: I’m going to be doing a lot of learning and listening to try to assess where we are. But I think it’s clear that for the trustees, it is a priority to see enrollment move up, to see completion move up, and to close some of the racial completion gaps that we have — which are quite significant. In the community colleges, the three-year completion rate for white students is 36 percent and the three-year completion rate for Black students is 15 percent. So we have a lot of work to do closing those kinds of gaps. And earnings impact is, I think, an important consideration: SUNY did a project with the Department of Labor to make transparent their earnings outcomes by campus. And for some, the premium is really large over what you would make if you’re a high school graduate in that region, but in other places the premium is a lot smaller. 

TU: Probably the big news in New York higher education recently has been Cazenovia College announcing that it’s going to close down. To be sure, that’s not the only private campus that is facing difficulties. Everybody talks about the notion that a great higher-education cull is coming for smaller private campuses. Is that something that is just apples and oranges from SUNY’s concerns? Or is it is is that something that SUNY is monitoring or planning for?

King: So, two things. One is the enrollment pressures are real across sectors. Some of that is demographic change — there are just fewer high school graduates — and some of that is a very high employment economy where folks are making the choice to take that job rather than go directly to school or to stay in school. I think for SUNY, that means we’ve got to make sure that we are attracting as many of those high school graduates as possible to the system — dual enrollment, making it easier for students to apply across multiple campuses; we did this application fee waiver that helped boost applications a lot. But then we’ve got nearly 2 million adults in the state who have some college education but no degree, and we want SUNY to be the place that they come to finish their degree. We’ve got many New Yorkers who haven’t gone to college at all, but might be able to move up at their job if they got a micro-credential or degree at a SUNY campus. We want them to know about us; we want students and other states to think, “Oh, yeah — I’m going to apply to Michigan, but I’m also going to apply to Stony Brook.” And we want international students. We have to make sure we’re doing everything possible to get students to know about the value proposition at SUNY. But then the second piece: I think it is inevitable that there will be schools that close. And we’ve got to make sure we help the students as much as possible. So we’ve already started to communicate opportunities for students to transfer their credits from Cazenovia to SUNY campuses. 

TU: Is it even a possibility that a private school that would close down could potentially be folded into a nearby or adjacent SUNY campus?

King: I can’t think of an example of a private college being absorbed by a public system; one doesn’t come immediately to mind. But there are certainly examples around the country of private colleges absorbing other colleges. And I think at the end of the day we want to be in a position to help the students, and to try to make sure if there are offerings that are important to our region, that those that those continue to be available — especially ones that are aligned to kind of regional economic development strategies.